Githongo

I think that the case of Ojiambo is a very straight forward one...

Kiraitu

Hmm..

Githongo

He started putting out statements on behalf of Anglo Leasing...which is a suspect in a criminal investigation of conspiracy to defraud the Kenya Government of 2.7 billion shillings....

He was called several times very nicely and asked...can you just advise us who they are, we don't actually need...we don't want anything else, we just want to know...we have a suspect who has disappeared, we want to know who it is...and... he talked to them on the phone a number of times...

[Interrupted by telephone call].. hello… yes, oh yes, Gate D.. Gate D, D for Delta, Delta… I will ask someone to come down to escort you... Dave Mwangi is downstairs at gate D. He should be shown up then he will wait in your room while I finish here.

So...Mr Mwangi...Mr Ojiambo proved evasive, the anti-corruption authority wrote to him officially ...I also wrote to him...The response which he gave to the anti-corruption authority in writing was complete contradiction to the statement which was subsequently carried in the newspaper....it was as if he was lying....where he says he is not in possession of certain facts, but the statement that he has put in the papers means he must be in possession of those facts...

So they said that what we need to do..what we need you to..to..assist us with..is...this information...we know your just acting for somebody...and we are not actually interested in you. He became increasingly belligerent.....on the telephone. Summons were issued which were ignored, and in a fairly childish way in my opinion, from what I was...because I asked for a description.. (Gideon) Mutua was here this morning.....where I think they would arrive and he would skip out of one door...as if he is...hiding..[interrupted by Mwiraria and Kiraitu muttering to each other]…

Githongo

The head of anti-corruption.... And Mmm...so the matter is now before a court, because summons were issued.... assist us and ...the matter now is before court....and...he rejected that.

Very unusual.

Mwiraria

Mmm..

Githongo

My initial thinking...[Interrupted by Mwiraria]

Mwiraria

No! no! Bwana Githongo..

Githongo

Mmm..

Mwiraria

Hii kitu...

Githongo

Mmm..

Mwiraria

If we are not careful..

Githongo

Mmm...

Mwiraria

Will come down with our government.....

Githongo

Mmm..

Mwiraria

What I am suggesting..

Githongo

Mmm...

Mwiraria

Why don't you...

Githongo

Mmm..

Mwiraria

and anti-corruption, and I am saying this in your presence Mweshimiwa (referring to Kiraitu)...

Githongo

Mmm..

Mwiraria

drop this matter...

Githongo

Mmm..

Mwiraria

I will get..

Githongo

Mmm...

Mwiraria

to the root of the matter, I will find out who it is..

Githongo

Mmm...

Mwiraria

in my own way…

Githongo

Mmm...

Mwiraria

Ya... I have not appraised it….....but I will find out exactly...ya...that information.

Githongo

Mmm...

Mwiraria

but..if we continue this way...

Githongo

Mmm..

Mwiraria

we start harrassing Ojiambo...ya....

Githongo

Mmm...

Mwiraria

you never know...

Githongo

What he might say..

Mwiraria

What he might say..and who else...

Githongo

he will pick on...

Mwiraria

he will pick on...and who will go down with Anglo Leasing.....

Githongo

Actually he...was extremely, from what I am advised...very belligerent at first yesterday...but by evening he had changed completely..

Kiraitu

Mmm...He was released?

Githongo

He was released, yes.

Mwiraria

Was he held?!

Githongo

He was held....he was arrested...he was officially arrested yesterday...at around four o'clock until he was released at nine in the evening.

Kiraitu

Did he record a statement?

Githongo

Emm...I do not think so...

Mwiraria

Did he give you any information?....Why don't we do this mweshimiwa [to Kiraitu]...

Kiraitu

Mmm…

Mwiraria

...as I said...I wrote a memo … which is interesting... You know when I came...and we talked here.... nili pigia Magari...there is a day I came from Kampala and I found Magari had just gone to the PAC and he had said he knew Anglo Leasing so when I went back, I told you why I talked to H.E (His Exellency), H.E wanted information before I went back...asked for information...I got the contract, I went through it, and wrote a memo to H.E. ....And H.E. agreed that you should try and get back the money. So I found out from my officers who know where the other money had come from... I didn't even ask them to give me the names. (Laughter) So I said, go and see them..(continued laughter)...tell them.... tunataka hio ingine ...the money in know in the Central Bank. It has been returned now.